Paul David Hager is an interesting cat. He’s a renowned FOH engineer, but also a renowned studio engineer. There are certainly other engineers who work in both areas, but usually they focus on one and dabble in the other. Not Paul — he lives squarely in both worlds. And his work in each of these domains informs and improves his work in the other. Hager’s been busy, non-stop, for the past couple decades, and his client list and discography include some of the biggest names in the business.
On the studio side of the world, he’s engineered and mixed records for superstars including Goo Goo Dolls, Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, Demi Lovato, Selena Gomez, The Jonas Brothers, Pink, American Hi-Fi, and many more. His work on Miley Cyrus’ Endless Summer Vacation album helped earn it a Grammy nomination. As a studio engineer, he has made a Who’s Who list of producers happy: John Fields, Rob Cavallo, Peter Collins, Butch Walker and John Shanks, among others.
On the live sound side, Hager has toured the world mixing FOH for a lengthy list of A-list clients, among them Goo Goo Dolls, Jane’s Addiction, Miley Cyrus, Avril Lavigne, Nick Jonas, Demi Lovato, Beck, Olivia Rodrigo and Devo — to name a few. He has received numerous awards, including a TEC Award for his work on Let’s Go Crazy: The Grammy Salute to Prince. His philosophy is that there’s punch and energy in a live show, and clarity and depth in the studio, and he consistently brings all of these attributes together in both domains.
I chatted with Hager about his background, his engineering philosophies, his tastes and where he sees the world of live sound going in the future. And his responses were as varied as his client list.
How do you feel about analog vs digital?
Obviously, I started off in analog, both studio and live. I love the sound of it. I first moved into digital in the studio with the Sony PCM-3348 — 48 tracks — but still with analog consoles. Eventually I moved to Pro Tools — Version 5, I think — but I only used it as a tape machine, as most of us did at that time. Around 2004, I started doing some mixing in Pro Tools. In the live sound world, I didn’t move to digital until 2005 — and even then, I only went kicking and screaming. I like some things about each of them.
Digital does exactly what you tell it to do, while analog kind of tells you what it’s going to do. I liked that with analog in the studio — what you sent to tape didn’t necessarily come back the same, but usually it was better. I liked the workflow of getting a great sound on analog tape then transferring it over to digital — a perfect snapshot of the great analog sound. The plug-in versions of analog hardware are very good these days — some are better than others. Saturation is harder to code because it’s so random, but EQs, delays and stuff like that is much easier. It’s all sounding good these days.
Which kind of work do you prefer — live or studio?
I love both equally. I just enjoy mixing, but in the live world I like seeing people’s reactions. I like being able to work by myself in the studio, but I like the excitement of mixing live, although after a not-so-great day doing live sound, I probably lean more 60/40 to the studio.
What are your favorite microphones?
There are too many — it’s hard to narrow it down. The SM57 is my litmus test standard — it’s an established sound that’s hard to beat. For lead vocals, I’ve really been liking the Shure KSM-11. The sE Electronics V7 is also a great workhorse. I’ve always loved the MD-421 for kick drum. I also use a few of the old AKG 414s, and I like Austrian Audio’s 818s — kind of the more modern version of the 414, with additional filters and patterns. I like how they have an extra mini XLR so you can record both sides of the capsule and then use a plug-in to change the polar pattern after the fact. I use a few different ribbons — Coles 4038s, Royers and especially beyerdynamic M-160s, which are great because they’re cardioid.
Coffee or tea?
Tea. I like coffee too, but I lean toward tea these days — you can get great tea lattes and with herbal teas there are a lot of great options.
What’s been your favorite tour so far?
I would say Miley Cyrus’ Bangerz tour in 2014. It was a nice long show — and everything about it just came together — the band, Miley, the audiences — it was just a good tour. At that point she already had a good catalog — Bangerz was her fourth studio album — and some really creative arrangements. But I’ve loved my Beck and Devo tours too. With Beck, every show features many different styles. It’s challenging, but in a good way. He likes to surprise us with spontaneous, unexpected setlist changes. I maintain about 150 snapshots, and sometimes he’ll even pull songs other than those, so I keep a list of which snapshot gets me closest to those songs to help get me started. Devo is just fun, especially with my brother [Devo member Josh Hager] in the band — it’s great! I’ve mixed his other bands, but Devo is on a completely different level. I’ve always been a fan — if someone had told me back in 1980 that in the future, I’d be sitting on a couch backstage between Mark Mothersbaugh and Jerry Casale watching football and mixing their shows, I’d have never believed it — it’s surreal.
Are there any particular places you hate mixing in?
I don’t care for arenas. They’re all pretty bad — especially the Canadian ones, which are all designed for hockey. Bell Center in Montreal actually sounded pretty good, but because of hockey, they took out all the absorptive surfaces. They said it was too quiet for hockey — they like lots of SPL and lots of reflections of the crowd!
Are you a musician or songwriter?
I’m a guitar player. I started on cello in the third grade. When I was in the seventh grade, my family moved to Boston — there was no strings program, but they did have an acoustic bass. I learned how to play that, which led to electric bass, which led to electric guitar, which I really loved, so I bought a guitar and a Marshall amp. Alex Lifeson has been my guitar hero, but I’ve also liked Eddie Van Halen and Jimmy Page. As a kid, I saw Page playing a Les Paul, and it seemed kind of choppy — not very smooth or fluid, and as a kid, I concluded it was because of the guitar — it just seemed like he was struggling with it. Later, I saw Eddie Van Halen playing a Strat, and that seemed a lot smoother and more fluid, and I decided that Strats sounded that way. Of course, looking back now, I love the Page sound, but as a 12-year-old I didn’t realize that the sound didn’t come from the guitar — it was the player! It’s no surprise that Alex Lifeson has been my biggest guitar hero, because Rush was pretty much my favorite band of all time.
Music or podcasts while you drive?
Podcasts. I just like to listen to talking more than music. Listening to music makes me drive too fast. I might listen to an overview of the day’s work in the studio on the way home, but I really like podcasts.
Do you have formal training?
On-the-job training. My dad was a broadcast engineer, and he taught me one major thing: Wherever the level of the music is, make sure the vocal is 3 dB louder. This is especially important in light of the two-bus dynamics processing, whether it’s in the live sound domain or especially for broadcast, where the heavy compression and limiting tuck the vocal back into the mix a bit. I did attend Berklee for three years — but not studying production and engineering, I was on the music track. This worked out well, because it made me think more about the creative and musical aspects, which has made me better at what I do. It was a fascinating time — MIDI was new and exciting — it was a taste of technology yet to come.
Do you have a favorite compressor?
The Distressor [from Empirical Labs]. It can emulate any compressor you need. All the other compressors do one thing, but the Distressor can do it all. It’s particularly good for vocals on a TV mix — it makes the vocal sit exactly in the right spot.
How big is the role of outboard processing in your live mixing?
A good amount, but it’s gotten smaller through the years as desks have gotten better sounding and do more what of what I am looking for in sound. I really like the Overstayer stuff — there are no plug-in versions of it, so I use the hardware. I still use hardware Distressors — I almost always have an API 2500+ on the music bus, and I like the Rupert Neve Designs Portico II Master Buss Processor on the stereo bus.
How do you feel about pitch correction?
It has its place, but in country music it takes the twang out. The trick is to let the note start a bit out of tune then land on the correct pitch. If you overdo it, it takes the character away — you have to leave the “blue” pitch in there. But now the kids naturally sing that way — like it’s already autotuned. It’s the sound they’ve grown up with, so they naturally sing that way.
What’s the greatest band/artist of all time?
I am a huge Rush fan — it was the first arena concert I ever saw. Rory Gallagher was the opening act, which was neat, but from the very first note of “The Spirit of Radio” I was just blown away — the massive drum kit, the Taurus pedals, the incredible musical performances — it had a huge impact on me. I really loved the Rush albums produced by Peter Collins, so I was incredibly happy to work with him in the studio for other artists. His magic was that he enhanced the band’s sound. Unlike other producers who have their own sound, he fine-tuned the band. He did it in a way that allowed the band to retain their own sound, but more focused. He didn’t imprint a new sound on them — he made them walk the path to find where they need to be and got rid of the stuff that wasn’t working. I’m really fond of Rush’s Power Windows album — it sounds like them, but modernized — a new, focused sound.
Do you have a favorite reverb?
Outboard, it’s a tie between the Sony DRE 2000, the AMS RMX and the Lexicon 480L. As far as plug-in reverbs it’s the Liquid Audio emulation of the Bricasti M7. I really like all of these.
What are your thoughts on parallel processing like compression, saturation, and so on?
I used to go nuts with it, but now I don’t actually run parallel channels for it — I use a lot of compressors with [wet/dry] mix knobs so I can keep the latency straight easily. It seems like a much more in-phase way to do it. With parallel signal routing, even if you match the latency and get all the delays right… if you do any kind of dynamic EQ stuff… if that’s different from channel to channel, it will introduce phase problems. Sometimes I use [Waves] C4s on drums just to tighten them up, and if they’re not set exactly the same on both channels it gets a little weird.
Do you have any predictions about where live entertainment is headed in the future?
I think speaker design and deployment will move to more AI support — to design systems and improve ease of deployment. I think prediction software will get better — you’ll put in the venue details and the AI will assist in helping you place the speakers, set SPL limits, frequency range, coverage and so on. When you put the speakers in, the predictive thing will learn more as you develop a database of venues. Obviously, there are different speakers and processors and mixers, but the venue size and shape doesn’t change, so you get more consistent from deployment to deployment.
Another thing is AR [augmented reality] — kids have been using immersive headsets for video games for 10 or 15 years — they’re kinda used to it, and they may be “attending” concerts that way in the future. And during the pandemic, a lot of people made their home theater systems better, so that may figure in too. I have an idea where you can “attend” a concert in AR, where there’s a hundred different virtual seats — you can basically “sit in the arena” in your living room. And you could see different bands in different locations — U2 is different in Boston than they are in LA — it’s just a different level of intensity. I mean, imagine seeing them in Dublin! Imagine doing like 20 nights — the venue would sell out physically, but you would limit the number of virtual seats to like 10,000. You could pick your seat, and the experience would be like sitting in that particular seat. Most of that is just where the room ambience would go — if you turn your head and look behind you, it would be as though you turned your head in the arena — more of the reflections would come in one ear. And it even ties in to merchandising — you could order your T-shirt online, and it shows up from Amazon the next day. I came up with this idea before Covid — a way that you can be there virtually and have as much of the experience without being there physically.
Do you have a favorite record producer — not necessarily one with whom you’ve worked?
Peter Collins. I learned so much working with him and he produced some of my favorite records of all time.
Would you rather travel 50 years into the future or the past?
The past — I could see my grandparents, and music was so good then.
